RfP #008 - Roll for Availability: Why Games Fall Apart (and How to Fix Them)

Terry: 00:00:00

You're listening to Roll for percept episode 8. Roll for availability, why games fall apart and how to fix them. It's time once again to Roll for Perceptocast.

I'm Terry, your forever GM and lover of all things roleplay.

Evelyn: 00:00:28

And I'm Evelyn, Roleplayer GM and unrepentant dice goblin.

Terry: 00:00:32

Join us as we roll our dice.

Evelyn: 00:00:34

And talk in strange voices and bring.

Terry: 00:00:37

To you our excitement and joy for all things tabletop role playing.

Evelyn: 00:00:41

For more on Roll for Perceptacast, head over to www.rollforperception.com.

Terry: 00:00:48

Alright, so you've got the maps ready, story prepped, snacks bought, and then the group chat lights up. Sorry, I cannot make it tonight. We've never had that happen, have we?

Evelyn: 00:01:00

Oh no, never, never. Not once.

Terry: 00:01:04

Both in person and online.

Evelyn: 00:01:07

Especially the moment you're about to step out the door and someone says they can't make it.

Terry: 00:01:11

Oh my gosh. Well, there's been times. So my first game, this is like not even written on our notes.

The first game that I ever played in there was a time I was literally walking because they were a house that was walkable.

So I just walked to their house and I was walking to their house and then I got the text and I just had to turn around to go home and it was like, oh, I'm a sad panda.

Evelyn: 00:01:34

Talk about driving halfway there when it's a 45 minute drive.

Terry: 00:01:38

That's.

Evelyn: 00:01:40

Yeah, yeah, no, you get to get to your exit and you just hook, hook left and come back home. Because that's your option.

Terry: 00:01:49

That's why you don't play 45 minutes away.

Evelyn: 00:01:52

I mean, you know, do what you can.

Terry: 00:01:55

So in fact, in case anybody couldn't figure out what we're talking about today, either by the title role, for availability, why games fall apart now to fix them, or by our little beginning discussion. Here we are talking about cancellations, nights that don't work and scheduling snafus that you might have to work through.

Whether you're playing an in person game, an online game, et cetera, aka the ultimate Bbeg. The ultimate Bbeg.

Evelyn: 00:02:25

Unavailable players or GMs.

Terry: 00:02:29

And trust us, you're not alone in this. This is fixable. We're here to help with whatever we can. And of course at the end we'd love to hear you give us feedback about how you have managed.

In fact, I did get one piece that I got it before we recording. So we'll be talking a little bit about that here in just a bit. Don't forget this is Roll for Perception.

You can find us on rollforperception.com any of the social media sites. It's either Roll for Perception or Roll Perception. Something in that vein.

Evelyn: 00:03:00

And then just to be clear, it's R O, L, E. That's true.

Terry: 00:03:04

Yeah. Like role play. I know. We were trying to be weird, super clever, and we screwed up because it's.

Evelyn: 00:03:10

Not like it's done a billion times already.

Terry: 00:03:12

Exactly. All right, so let's move into our first section on why scheduling falls apart. And the first one's going to hit us pretty easily, pretty quickly.

We are adults.

Evelyn: 00:03:25

Yep.

Terry: 00:03:26

And though I hate the word adulting with a passion, I mean, it is what we do. Jobs, partners, kids, burnout. I mean, just look.

Evelyn: 00:03:37

Emergencies.

Terry: 00:03:38

Our podcast came back a year later.

Evelyn: 00:03:40

Because of my job, and adulting happened.

Terry: 00:03:45

And that was only two of us. Can you imagine? More than that. But it's. I mean, it's true, right?

Evelyn: 00:03:50

Right.

Terry: 00:03:50

Yeah, we've run into those things. I mean, we have a little one who is turning two in just a couple weeks, and there were times that we just couldn't do yet.

Evelyn: 00:04:02

You just don't have the energy or the bandwidth sometimes.

Terry: 00:04:06

I remember when we were in Alma, there would be nights that you would come home exhausted because you worked on the day that we played, and half the time I thought that I needed to cantle just so that you could have a. A less stressful night. The other nights, you just wanted to kill things or.

Evelyn: 00:04:23

Yeah.

Terry: 00:04:24

Fish cake. Fish. Were they fish cakes?

Evelyn: 00:04:27

Oh, yeah.

Terry: 00:04:31

Wow. That's a.

Evelyn: 00:04:32

That's a. That's a sore spot. I just wanted to enjoy my. My fish cake stand. And, you know, we had made so many fish cakes. We had made a.

Terry: 00:04:45

There might have been a fireball involved.

Evelyn: 00:04:46

Yes. From a poorly resurrected PC that became an NPC of evil who we never saw again after that.

Terry: 00:04:55

Yeah. Coming back from our tensions, sometimes you need to just spend time with your family, and that's a big one for me.

I work in theater, and so there are nights where I just have to be out at work and shows. Yeah. It's one of those things that, you know, it's just about being an adult. Could.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all go back to our teenage years and early twenties and not have as many responsibilities and just back when you.

Evelyn: 00:05:26

Could stay up all night rolling dice and eating pizza and then somehow not be tired the next day, I technically.

Terry: 00:05:37

Could stay up all. No, I couldn't anymore. No, no. I fall asleep way too easy.

Evelyn: 00:05:43

Yeah, we. We made it through 20 minutes of wheel of Time last night.

Terry: 00:05:47

Hey, it's an episode I've already seen. So.

Evelyn: 00:05:51

Yeah, I'm just saying.

Terry: 00:05:55

Other culprits over commitment. You've got your initial excitement versus long term commitment reality, which is sort of happening. That initial excitement is being shown right now.

I'm running a play by post on our Discord server. Check it out. Discord gg backslash rfp. And there's a lot of excitement in it.

And of course, as one of the GMs, I want to try and continue that excitement. But there is that and we've seen that. That initial excitement that then kind of peters out pretty quickly.

Evelyn: 00:06:29

Yeah, and that can happen with, I mean, any game in person or remote. You know, it doesn't really matter the format entirely. It's just some.

Especially with when you have either players who haven't played in a really long time or brand new players to the game, they can come in super hyp because either they're getting to play for the first time ever, or, you know, they haven't played in a few years and they're super excited that they get to play again for the first time.

And sometimes if, you know, for whatever reason, either the group doesn't mesh well or the campaign isn't, you know, turning out to be what you expect it to be, that initial, like, enthusiasm for it can kind of fade a little faster than you might hope for.

Terry: 00:07:14

Oh my gosh, it's so true. And you know, sometimes it might be a new system, right? You've got a new system and you're like super stoked and you want to try all this stuff out.

Evelyn: 00:07:23

It's the shiny new toy.

Terry: 00:07:24

This is awesome. And then you find out, you know, six sessions in that it's not, this is not the system that you thought it was going to be.

And it starts to kind of be like, I'm not sure I really want to do this, you know, or other. Or it might not be a system that your players end up really enjoying and so, you know, they're not into it.

So, you know, over committing is a big thing. Lack of structure. Right.

So if you don't have a structured setup with your group, then you might, you know, your players might be like, oh, we were, we were playing tonight.

Evelyn: 00:08:02

Yeah, well, that's one of those things that I think is an important session zero conversation, you know, kind of figuring out, okay, when is the best time regularly to, to do these sorts of, you know, is it going to be once a month? Is it going to be, you know, every other week, is it going to be a weekly thing? So figuring out that out front can help a lot of the time. So.

Terry: 00:08:23

Yeah, I completely agree with that. Now just do we, do do you think we over restraint how much time we actually have for gaming when we first start a campaign?

Evelyn: 00:08:33

I think it depends on how new the GM is first of all to either GMing at all or. Because you know, coming from the player side, like you've played a game a million times, right?

And then you sit down on the other side of the screen and suddenly it is a very different beast because you kind of don't like even the best player that you have at a table who's like the super prepared one that comes in enthusiastic every time when they decide to take the other side of the screen. They don't really realize necessarily how much preparation goes into it.

And sometimes that can affect things because like you have to take it when you're, when you're taking into account the time that the actual session is being played. There's also all the time that comes into it beforehand to make sure that the session can be run for, to fill that full amount of time.

And there's various people who have various rules of thumb for planning out that time.

Terry: 00:09:35

Yeah, no, I completely agree with pretty much all of that. That is, there's. Yeah, I'm. I'm just gonna leave it at that. I agree.

Evelyn: 00:09:44

But then, you know, another part is like with a new system as you mentioned, you know, that can.

Can planning for a system that you've never really run before and planning out the way the time's gonna run for that too can be different because okay, suddenly combats don't take as long, right? Or you know, for a new group too, you know, are they gonna spend most of the time role playing? Are they gonna.

Do they want to spend more time doing combat things like those sor kind of plan out as well for that time slot. And it's not just okay, I have three hours, let's see what happens.

Terry: 00:10:19

And then, you know, one of those big things. Another reason why scheduling might fall apart is that domino effect, right? You cancel one session and it becomes harder to keep the sessions going.

We've seen it where we've had a couple of weeks in a row where we've ended up canceling sessions. Now one of those was with your paid game. So there's, you know, incentive to keep it going regardless.

But in a situation where it's just friends and whatnot, when you, when you get a Couple of cancellations in a row. That's when it falls downhill. And my very first group, the very first group I played with, that's literally how our campaign ended.

Well, Covid happened first and then we went online.

Evelyn: 00:11:00

That might be a tiny little mitigating factor.

Terry: 00:11:03

We went on to Discord to start doing it through that, but then we had a couple of cancellations in a couple of weeks and then we never rescheduled and that was the end of that. And then our GM moved to Australia.

Evelyn: 00:11:15

Well, that could make things a little challenging.

Terry: 00:11:17

That did change it a little bit.

Evelyn: 00:11:18

Yeah.

Terry: 00:11:20

But he's doing well there, so that's kind of awesome. I didn't get, you know, I didn't get a lot of responses from people. I put some stuff out on Blue sky and on Facebook and just to kind of see that.

For those that are curious, I'm not on Twitter, so you're not going to find us there. But it is one of those things that I'd be curious, you know, how many people's campaigns reach a satisfying end. And I know for. For me, I've had two.

Evelyn: 00:11:46

Me too.

Terry: 00:11:46

I've had Outlaws of Alcantar and I've had an Abomination Vaults.

Evelyn: 00:11:51

Oh, that's three actually for me. Both of those. Because I had the. Because I played in both of yours.

I played in the Alcantara and the Abomination Vaults and then Rise of the Rune Lords.

Terry: 00:12:04

Yes.

Evelyn: 00:12:04

I actually, even though I had to leave early because of. Out of that campaign, because I moved, I was actually able to character at. Yeah. But I also was able to also play in the final session via remote.

Terry: 00:12:18

Oh, that's.

Evelyn: 00:12:18

They were able to get me in for that.

So I was actually able to be there for the very final session, which, you know, it made it feel like there I had that closure that I really wanted for that campaign. So that was. That was really nice. So, yeah, I've. I have completed three as a player, none as AGM yet, but I.

Because prior to the campaigns that I'm currently running, I'd only really run one shots and like little mini sessions. So I'm. I'm really excited to see kind of how all the both of my campaigns play out right now.

Terry: 00:12:56

Yeah. Yeah, that's. Yeah. You've got a couple that are going strong.

I'm working on the Play by Post1 and there's a couple that we're hoping to get started and we'll see how things go. But it's true. And, and I've DM a lot of games. I've DMed a lot.

Evelyn: 00:13:11

Yes.

Terry: 00:13:11

At one point. A lot in a single week.

Evelyn: 00:13:13

Yeah. It was like ten at a time.

Terry: 00:13:15

Yeah. And they all just kind of petered out for one reason or another. I mean, some of my.

My endings have come from some big stuff, like a death in the party, you know, that's why Blood Lords came to an end. Honestly.

Evelyn: 00:13:29

We lost a player.

Terry: 00:13:30

Lost a player in that. And then in a couple others, it was just players ended up not being able to continue.

And so they just kind of came to a close and that happens and whatnot. But, yeah, it is. These are. And again, these are all reasons why scheduling might fall apart.

So let's talk about our next topic, which is understanding the psychology. And what I mean by. And understand. Neither of us are psychologists, so this is like hack psychology.

Hopefully I'm rolling a 15 or something, but we'll see. I like it. What was it that was said today about rolling? Something happened in real life and I ended up saying, now I can't even remember.

I have to remember to write these things down because they're funnier when I write them.

Evelyn: 00:14:25

I have to remember to make note of when I'm clever. The eleventh Doctor. Why is no one observing me? Be clever.

Terry: 00:14:34

So true. So let's start with what we're going to call guilt and shame and how players feel when they can't make it, which causes dropouts.

I know that for both you and I, there have been times we have gone through on a session when we shouldn't have.

Evelyn: 00:14:49

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Terry: 00:14:51

And a lot of that comes from us feeling guilty about other people not.

Evelyn: 00:14:57

Being able to play.

Terry: 00:14:58

Correct.

Evelyn: 00:14:59

Because that's really what it is. Like, I feel bad if I. If I like. Because especially, like, if I know everyone's particularly excited about the session as a player or as a gm.

And then I feel bad because, you know, I want them to have fun.

Terry: 00:15:15

Yeah.

Evelyn: 00:15:15

And even if I don't feel good, I will just suck it up and get through it because, you know, at least they're having fun. But then that can have a ripple effect.

Terry: 00:15:28

Well, then on the other side is you're called in and you've created the session. Getting canceling because of your dropout.

Evelyn: 00:15:37

Yeah.

Terry: 00:15:37

And now you've got to face them in the next session.

Evelyn: 00:15:39

Yeah.

Terry: 00:15:40

And online, I feel like that's less of an issue. But in person, I mean, sorry, guys, I missed last week. I'm so sorry.

Evelyn: 00:15:48

I had the plague. I didn't want to share it with you. Sorry.

Terry: 00:15:51

I mean, I Literally gave people Covid because I attended a gay. I didn't know I had Covid at the time.

Evelyn: 00:15:57

Sharing is caring.

Terry: 00:15:59

That was. Oh, my gosh. That was. I remember this vividly.

Evelyn: 00:16:04

Oh, okay.

Terry: 00:16:04

I was not feeling super well. And we were. I wasn't hosting the games, but I was the gm. So I was over at Amanda's and Kevin's house. This is before you had gotten there.

And I had a little bit of a cough. I didn't think it was anything. And then the next morning, I was feeling terrible and I took a test and I had Covid.

And then both Amanda and Kevin came down with COVID later in the week.

Evelyn: 00:16:32

Wow.

Terry: 00:16:33

And so it was. I was like, we did cancel the next week.

Evelyn: 00:16:38

Yeah. Note to self, if you even slightly feel bad, don't.

Terry: 00:16:44

Yeah.

Evelyn: 00:16:44

Play your in person games because we don't want to share Covid. It's not nice.

Terry: 00:16:51

And then you've got something called the session inertia trap, where skipping one makes it easier to skip two. And it's so true. You skip one session and then the next session comes around. You're like, well, but I really got to take care of this.

I'll just skip this session too. And it just builds up.

Evelyn: 00:17:09

That can also.

That can also be one of those things where, like, if you have to skip a session for an actual thing and then you realize, man, I actually kind of don't enjoy playing this game.

Terry: 00:17:23

Oh, yeah.

Evelyn: 00:17:24

And then that leads to that as well. It's like, oh, I had a realization and I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

Terry: 00:17:31

It's so true. And then, I mean, in that you've got player types too, you know, some are highly motivated, others more casual, and that can affect scheduling.

I know I've run into this a couple of times. I tend to be. Well, it actually I don't have a general from me because there's a lot of.

I'm just about to say there's a lot of depending factors when it comes to, for example, Pathfinder 2e adventure books, I've kind of. I'm less super motivated on those.

Evelyn: 00:18:02

Right.

Terry: 00:18:03

And you know, a good example is I'm in an adventure path game right now, and I like playing it more for the people that are in it than for the adventure path. And so I continue to attend. But if I didn't like the people in it, that would be a game that I could easily see myself going, meh.

I'm gonna skip a session where other games I've been super motivated. Break is a good example that Game. Like I had so much fun with it. Like I looked forward to every week on that game.

Evelyn: 00:18:39

Yeah. And then I was out because I was sick on that one.

Terry: 00:18:42

Yeah. And so you know it a lot. And then you're gonna have a mix and mash of people in the game itself.

Where again, generally speaking, I'm a fairly highly motivated. It's when I have those lesser motivated that there's a clash. And I've had that. My paid games are a big one because I've had several groups.

Evelyn: 00:19:01

Well, you get lots of different personalities with paid games because it's not like a lot of like the personal games that you play where often is a group of people.

You know, when you, when you do a paid game, most of the time it's a bunch of people that are like, oh, well, you know, it seems like we might mesh well. And you tend to get, you know, granted a lot of times they're willing to play more often because they're paying for it.

So there's that incentive there. But at the same time, you know, they'll, you know, when they miss, they, they miss.

But you definitely, it's, it's definitely a different dynamic I think when it's a paid game because like I said, it's, you don't necessarily know entirely what you're going into.

Terry: 00:19:47

Right.

Evelyn: 00:19:47

With a group that's potentially, you know, 4, 5, 6. I, you know, the 6 is the most olive run.

Terry: 00:19:54

Right.

Evelyn: 00:19:54

But people that are potentially strangers to you.

Terry: 00:19:57

Right.

Evelyn: 00:19:57

And that you, you know, like you, you're first, like before your first session, the most interaction you might have, you know, with them is through DMS and through your session zero.

So you might not necessarily figure out like how they, you know, what gets them involved or how involved they are going to be until you really kind of start getting into the actual swing of the game.

So that's a different dynamic there too because with most, you know, games where I just want to get a bunch of friends together and roll some dice, you know, I know when they're going to be there for it because I've known them for a while. So that's, you know, that's a aspect to it as well.

It's like how well do you know your players are these, you know, people that are, you know, are they, you know, are you going in every Saturday at your friendly local game shop and running just, you know, open table games too or with a group that's, you know, of players that have signed up there? So it, it's kind of different space different dynamic. It's gonna change how the availability and scheduling kind of works for those sort of things.

Terry: 00:21:07

Yes, yes. And another. Yes. One of the things to keep in mind, of course, is that consistent play helps keep players excited and prep for the next session.

You know, when there is. And we did an experiment, we did a game every other week. I'm not gonna say it was successful. I'm gonna say it was harder for me to stay motivated.

Evelyn: 00:21:33

Well, for me, the big thing was doing the every other week thing doesn't work well for my ability to retain the information, because for me, you lost that momentum between me. Momentum, yeah. Between the weeks. And then I'd be like, okay, now I gotta look back at my notes. What did we do last time?

Because it's been so long since we were together last, like, what even happened? And then that's the whole thing.

Terry: 00:22:00

If you have to cancel a session, then it's four weeks later and it. It becomes. And so I will probably not do that type in the future.

What I might do, and we've talked a little bit about this with our upcoming game, is do spurts, meaning doing like four weeks in a row, but then maybe taking a break if we hit a nice natural stopping point and then coming back to it.

And part of that is that adulting thing that we've talked about, because once we hit the semester, it becomes harder for me because there's definitively two weeks each semester that there's just no way.

Evelyn: 00:22:38

One week.

Terry: 00:22:39

Yeah. There's no way I'm going to be able to play no matter what. So we have to find that. But I completely, completely believe that that is.

That consistency helps to keep the game going.

Evelyn: 00:22:51

Right.

Terry: 00:22:52

So. So here's a question then. How do you. How do you stay excited between sessions?

Evelyn: 00:22:57

It kind of depends on the game I'm playing in. Obviously for some that I've played in the past, like, I've journaled as my character to kind of keep kind of track of.

But it was when it made sense for that character to be the type to keep that sort of stuff. Being able to do, like text roleplay, like what we're doing with the play by post stuff in the Discord.

But like, in other places that we've played, being able to do text role play in between sessions is a great way to keep it exciting, you know, And I think making sure that a good cliffhanger is always really, really. Oh, my gosh, great way to keep people coming back.

Especially, like, you know, something is about to be revealed or like combat's about to be started, or, you know, you're close to the end and somebody's about to have to make, like, a check to make sure that they're going to live. You know, all those sorts of things, or, you know, just something relevant to their backstory gets dropped right at the end of the session.

I think those are all really good ways to get people excited to. To come back for the next session.

Terry: 00:24:05

And I know some people like to find a natural stopping point like. Like a campy night or something like that, but I have.

Now that I've done enough games over the years, it is the cliffhanger that I feel works better week to week. And I saw that a lot in Outlaws, because I always tried to end Outlaws on a cliffhanger, and that always felt like, oh, I can't wait till next week.

Oh, I can't wait to see what's gonna happen.

Evelyn: 00:24:31

Yeah.

Terry: 00:24:32

And so I'm completely agreement in that. And the other thing is, I like the journaling thing.

You know, I've talked a little bit about the Cipher system game that we're looking at doing here soon, which will include the possibility of some journaling, which will allow you to get some extra xp, which in the cipher system allows you to do things in a variety of ways. So extra credit, extra homework. I mean, credit.

Evelyn: 00:24:56

It is extra credit homework. Let's be real.

Terry: 00:24:59

All right, let's move into our next section. The tools, tricks, and scheduling fixes.

And these are things that you can think about as you are developing your own way of making sure that you can stay connected, stay scheduled, stay consistent, just like we talked about. And with that, let's start with the tech tools. And in this day and age, so much easier, right?

Evelyn: 00:25:29

Yeah.

Terry: 00:25:29

I mean, there is so much technology to allow you to kind of stay consistent when you're scheduling anything.

Evelyn: 00:25:37

Right. You can share calendars on so many different platforms.

Terry: 00:25:41

You can share calendars. The doodle and when to meet. Those are great. There's one we use with the college and I can't tell me when or something like that.

It's a similar thing where you can kind of send it out. Everybody can say when they're available and boop, that's when you go. And I think that's fantastic. I don't think we use it enough, like me and you.

I think that's something that as we move into games, I think. And now that I think of it, I was just trying to schedule our initial meeting. I should have used one of these tools for that.

Man, I gotta See that's one of.

Evelyn: 00:26:19

The big things that I love about start playing is that like, because of the way it's set up for the paid games and this is not a sponsored thing. I'm just saying that because you can.

Terry: 00:26:31

Do free games on there too.

Evelyn: 00:26:32

But I like that like you, when you set up your, your game to run, it not only has the day and time that it's going to run, but it also sends out reminders to not just the players, but to the GM as well. It's like, hey, you have a game tomorrow at this time and this many people are showing up for it. And that's so nice.

And it helps remind the players that hey, you need to let your GM know if you're not going to be there for the session or, but by the way, you have one at this time tomorrow, you know, so well and.

Terry: 00:27:07

And Discord now because Discord so prevalent. Yeah, you can do Discord polls pretty easily and that's, you know, again, all.

Evelyn: 00:27:14

Well and, and you can also set up events in Discord.

Terry: 00:27:16

Yes you can.

Evelyn: 00:27:17

So if you run your, you know, your games through Discord, either play by post or you know, just using the video online remote stuff, you can actually set them up as events in your Discord, you know, channel. And then it's there at the top for everybody and they can say, hey, I want to come to that. So that, that's super helpful and useful.

Terry: 00:27:38

And you can come to that and you can come to that and you can come to that.

Evelyn: 00:27:42

But not everybody can come to that because we cap it as six players.

Terry: 00:27:45

That's true. Gotta cap things. You've got shared Google Calendars which you kind of mentioned.

I know some people that use Notion, which is I'm using something called Obsidian, but Notion dashboards are really good. And then you've, of course you've got Discord bots that can handle reminders and scheduling. And there are so many bots out there.

I just went through recently and cleaned out the bots in the RFP Discord.

Evelyn: 00:28:09

And yeah, we had quite the collection.

Terry: 00:28:11

Oh my God.

Evelyn: 00:28:12

But it's because we like got, we got a bunch to try out.

Terry: 00:28:15

Yeah. And so we finally, we finally narrowed down and we only have a couple bots running now, but they're super useful.

And yeah, I mean again, these are, these are tools, right? These are tools that can help you figure out when to schedule, etc. Then you've got your structure, strategies. Of course there's the fixed day format.

This is what we're used to. Ours was every Friday night when we were in person.

Evelyn: 00:28:40

Right.

Terry: 00:28:41

And usually about. Well, you got home. So usually it was seven.

Evelyn: 00:28:47

Well, so it was later when I was during busy season.

Terry: 00:28:51

Oh, yeah, Busy season, which is the.

Evelyn: 00:28:53

Fall for anybody who doesn't work at.

Terry: 00:28:55

A cider mill, that is indeed the busy season.

Evelyn: 00:29:00

But otherwise, yeah, it was probably around 7 because store closed at it. 6.

Terry: 00:29:08

Yeah, see, that's what I think. And so we started at 7 and went to 10, usually.

Evelyn: 00:29:12

Yeah. Because I had to close down. And so, yeah, it was about 6:30 when I left and it took me about 20 minutes to get home. So.

Terry: 00:29:18

And so, you know, and. And everybody's played one of those games where you have the same every week.

Every time we had one when I was in a game with you, when we streamed, it was every Tuesday. You know, it is. It is. What is people think of when they think of playing in a. In a ttrpg. Yeah, right there.

Evelyn: 00:29:43

Sometimes it's like, oops, sorry. Sometimes it's a, like, set day, but not necessarily a set time.

Terry: 00:29:55

Right.

Evelyn: 00:29:55

Like, oh, we're gonna get together on Saturday, we'll figure out the time. So even though that. That's not. Not as strict of a schedule, and on a, like, fixed day format, that would still kind of fall under that same idea.

It's just a little more loosely set, essentially.

Terry: 00:30:15

A little more open.

Evelyn: 00:30:16

Yeah.

Terry: 00:30:16

Which can work for some but cannot work for others, I guarantee you. And then you've got it. You know, of course you've got to decide how do you deal with no shows. Do you play with who shows up?

And I've always tried to say in my games, if one person doesn't show up, I will still play the game.

Evelyn: 00:30:35

And that's how I do mine. If it's two or more, then the game's canceled. Because I don't want to have to run two player characters plus all of the enemy combatants in a.

Because I essentially view it as this combat can happen at any point. And even though I might not necessarily have something immediately that might happen, because it can happen at any point.

Trying to juggle all of the NPCs and player characters, it's just not fun for me. No.

Terry: 00:31:10

And you can have your players run characters, but you have to feel comfortable with that. So when me and you were playing in a campaign, I had no issues when you would run my character or vice versa. That was fine. We were comfortable.

Comfortable with it. But obviously that is, I ran a.

Evelyn: 00:31:26

Lot of people's characters in that campaign.

Terry: 00:31:28

Yeah. Like when Vivi wasn't there and whatnot. And so, you know, there. You have to be comfortable with that. But truthfully, it does.

It ends up falling up on the gm, and the GM already has so much to handle that more than one just. And even when there's one that that character tends to become silent character, just there for the roles, essentially.

Now, you know, sometimes you can think about building in NPC arcs or side quests around missing characters, which kind of allow you to kind of work around that. We're going to talk about one way of playing here in just a little bit that kind of helps to solve that problem. But you do.

You have to think about how you're going to go about that.

Evelyn: 00:32:14

Because if you.

If it's gonna be a situation where they have to miss a bunch of sessions in a row, like, it becomes an issue of, you know, I don't want them to feel completely left behind.

Terry: 00:32:26

Right.

Evelyn: 00:32:27

And, you know, sometimes life just happens that way. So you have to figure out ways to make, you know, make sure that they're at least relatively caught up to where things are when they come back.

So they're not completely like, what happens now.

Terry: 00:32:48

The issues, of course, you start to run into is, you know, if they miss multiple sessions.

Evelyn: 00:32:53

Right.

Terry: 00:32:53

It just. It becomes difficult, you know, the more sessions you miss of a campaign that is staying consistent, the more difficult it is to jump back in.

And I am proof in the pudding there.

Evelyn: 00:33:04

Yeah.

Terry: 00:33:04

When I had to miss three weeks, it ended up being two, but still two weeks of the current Sky King's Tomb campaign. And it was. It's still hard for me to catch up on it all. Like, I still feel a little like I'm getting back into it, but there is. It.

It definitely has taken some time to feel.

Evelyn: 00:33:22

I mean, luckily, with the way that this particular chapter is broken up.

Terry: 00:33:26

Right.

Evelyn: 00:33:26

It's kind of. So if you. For anybody.

Terry: 00:33:30

Spoilers for.

Evelyn: 00:33:32

For anybody who has not run a Paizo adventure Path, their. Their adventure paths are often broken up into chapters. Right. And then over several books.

Sometimes the adventure path is all in one book, but most of the time, if you get, like, their subscription essentially, like, depending on how many levels it is, it could be anywhere from three, four books up to six books, I think.

Terry: 00:33:57

Lord.

Evelyn: 00:33:58

Lord. Six, right?

Terry: 00:33:59

Yep. Although they've moved away from this, I think they're trying to stick with the three books now.

Evelyn: 00:34:05

But the way that the. The chapter that they're in broke down, there was kind of an event that happened at the beginning, and then they had to do Some research.

Terry: 00:34:15

Yep.

Evelyn: 00:34:16

And then now they have, like, a mini dungeon that they're in right now. Luckily, the part that he missed at the.

Was at the beginning of this chapter where they had this, like, festival that they were attending where they just had to talk to some of the NPCs to get a bit of information.

Terry: 00:34:31

I missed the party.

Evelyn: 00:34:32

Yeah, you did miss the party. But his character befriended a ethical necromancer who is also an archaeologist, apparently, and they went off together to do archaeological things.

So.

Terry: 00:34:45

So I started a new character.

Evelyn: 00:34:46

Yeah.

Terry: 00:34:47

Because that's how I roll.

Evelyn: 00:34:48

Yeah.

Terry: 00:34:49

For perception.

Evelyn: 00:34:49

Yeah. But that was that. Like, his character left because he asked me to have his character leave.

Like, it wasn't just, like, I didn't just send him off with the Ethical Necromancer. Literally, this character. Spoilers.

But, like, this lizard folk that comes into this party who, who, like, the main notes that it gives you is that he wants to have discussions about the ethics behind necromancy and how, like, it can be handled in such a way that everybody consents to the process. So it's, it's pretty funny.

Terry: 00:35:24

Oh, my God. Even the dead people, you know, permission beforehand. The other thing you can do in this is you can invite a guest player when someone can't make it.

And I've had guest players come in. Not when people haven't made it. But a good example is Vivi in the final Outlaws of Alkinstar.

Evelyn: 00:35:45

She was able to come in. We. Oh, and you had, like, Wick jump in with us one week when we were doing abomination vaults in, in person with. With our Friday people.

Terry: 00:35:57

And so, you know, inviting a guest player in who might, you know, only have time every once in a while would be a great way of doing things.

You can, I know some people do this where they do rotating jams where if, if somebody's going to be missing a couple of weeks, they'll have somebody else GM a different one shot, two shot, three shot so that the people can continue their consistent playing, but it's not going to affect the major campaign that they're currently part of.

Evelyn: 00:36:28

Keeps the enthusiasm for playing something up.

Terry: 00:36:31

That's exactly it.

And then, of course, you know, when these types of things happen, if a person's down, you can kind of rotate the spotlight back to them when they get back.

Evelyn: 00:36:41

Yeah, absolutely.

Terry: 00:36:41

Which allows them to kind of be a part of it, even though they've missed.

Evelyn: 00:36:47

Right.

Terry: 00:36:47

Some of it.

Evelyn: 00:36:48

But the, the, the delicate balance there is finding the place where you're not immediately, like, putting the Spotlight on them. They need to ease back into it a little bit, you know, because otherwise they might feel put on the spot as they've been out for a bit.

So like it's just finding that, that sweet spot essentially.

Terry: 00:37:06

So here's a good question then. If someone in the group is consistently can't make it, how do you handle it without making them feel left out?

Evelyn: 00:37:13

Fill them in on what they've missed as much as possible.

Terry: 00:37:17

Send their character off and tell them they've got to start a new one.

Evelyn: 00:37:20

No, never. Not without their permission first. Oh yeah, that's, that's a big thing for me. I do not take away players character agency or their player agency.

That's very important.

But no, like I, you know, if, if I do send their character off to do like their own little side quest, I'll let them know like what you know there and then, then you let the party in role play inform them like if they've been off on their own side quest, you know, I give them the information of what they've been doing on their little side quest and then let the party fill them in on through role play on like what they might have missed.

Now if they're being a silent participant in the party, then in that case we just kind of catch them up as needed and then they kind of can get back into it.

Terry: 00:38:10

Yeah. I love the idea of using roleplay to be kind of that piece that motivates bringing people back up to speed.

I mean that obviously for me is one of the major reasons I love tabletop role playing games. And so whenever that's possible, I think that is the idea for me the ideal way to allow it to have.

Evelyn: 00:38:32

To send them off on their own little thing and let the party fill them in because I mean obviously like if their character's not there, right, just like the, the player is not there, then it's a perfect opportunity to kind of make both things happen simultaneously.

Terry: 00:38:49

Which obviously is going to be easier in the sense if, if somebody is already like they know they're going to be absent on a certain day. Right Then that is going to work better.

Evelyn: 00:39:02

Oh absolutely, yeah.

Terry: 00:39:04

Which man, if people could just tell me when they weren't going to be there all the time, that'd be awesome.

I mean we've had, we've been lucky with that some in some campaigns that I've been in where you know, people are very forthcoming on when they're not.

Evelyn: 00:39:17

Going to be, I mean if they're going to be out of town for work or Personal reasons or whatever, then they usually know ahead of time for those things. But there's obviously there's always situations that come up that, you know, you can't plan for.

Terry: 00:39:30

So, man, I'm gonna have to use some of like doodle and when to meet. I didn't even think about using that in a non work environment because we use it like literally all the time for work.

And I didn't even think about it for scheduling things.

Evelyn: 00:39:45

Welcome to using work tools for other things than they were initially designed for.

Terry: 00:39:50

Speaking of, Kent asked me today when we were going to get together and play games.

Evelyn: 00:39:54

So we gotta do that soon.

Terry: 00:39:55

That is now on our calendar of things that we have to look at. All right, so let's look at how to structure games for real life.

Our next section here where we're going to talk a little bit about, you know, there are certain types of games that may work better for you if real life is a challenge.

Evelyn: 00:40:16

Absolutely.

Terry: 00:40:17

I mean, not that real life is a challenge.

Evelyn: 00:40:18

I mean, it can be.

Terry: 00:40:19

Real life can be a challenge.

Evelyn: 00:40:21

It can be.

Terry: 00:40:21

Oh my goodness.

Evelyn: 00:40:22

For sure.

Terry: 00:40:24

Especially in this market. All right, so let's start with episodic campaigns.

Evelyn: 00:40:30

Yeah.

Terry: 00:40:31

And you know, when I think episodic, I first think X Files. Because X Files is a very episodic type television show where each week has its own. You had your own background. You still had the same people. Right.

You always had Scully and Mulder, but each week they're different, dealing with something different.

Evelyn: 00:40:53

And then there was like the overarching.

Terry: 00:40:54

Exactly.

Evelyn: 00:40:55

Thing.

Terry: 00:40:56

So. So essentially in this. Each session is a self contained.

Evelyn: 00:41:00

There's a lot of Buffy the Vampire Slayer too.

Terry: 00:41:03

Yep.

Evelyn: 00:41:03

Oh, yeah, she had a lot of episodic.

Terry: 00:41:06

And so when we talk about it in TTRPG is Monster Monster Week.

Evelyn: 00:41:10

Yep.

Terry: 00:41:11

I mean you did. You've. You've been in multiple sessions.

Evelyn: 00:41:15

So a friend of ours ran kind of. It was kind of a campaign because it had a overarching.

But there was like different thing that we encounter and it was, it was set up so that he could just kind of run it whenever there was a need to have a filler thing.

Terry: 00:41:32

Yep.

Evelyn: 00:41:33

And it was, it's definitely. I would put it in that sort of, sort of place essentially like that had the overarching plot, but there was a different.

Literally the Monster of the Week. It is what it's called. So. Yeah.

Terry: 00:41:50

And you know, there's a lot of different systems that can. That can do that. Right. You've got, of course, Monster of the Week root RPG actually could work very much like that.

Then you get into things like Call of Cthulhu and Delta Green both very easily. Obviously you have to create it in a way that goes towards that, but they can work very well for that.

Evelyn: 00:42:16

I think a lot of the PBTA games in general kind of lend themselves to that sort of format.

Terry: 00:42:23

Well. And you know, honestly, you could do it with the D20 stuff. You just have to.

Evelyn: 00:42:29

It would be. Yeah. I mean it would have to be like a homebrewed thing, but you could definitely make it happen. That.

That's kind of when you set up your like your monster hunters guild and your, your, you know, fantasy characters meet with like the guild or they pick up jobs and then that's what they do. And maybe there's an overarching, you know, thing that they have to deal with by the end of it having.

Okay, this is what we have to deal with this week. This is what we have to deal with this week. And we get these bounties like it's a group of bounty hunters essentially.

Terry: 00:43:01

Well, and you know, if you look at any of the Pathfinder Society stuff, that's essentially what that is. It's a, you know.

Evelyn: 00:43:07

Yeah.

Terry: 00:43:08

Single night game. And you could take all the Pathfinder societies for a season or two and build that into a larger campaign because it does.

Most of those do have an overarching idea.

Evelyn: 00:43:20

Well and they're set for specific levels too. So you could pick the ones that fit for the levels that you're at and make them work that way.

Terry: 00:43:28

Next up you've got your West Marches style which we are doing for our play by post. We are using the Legend in the Mist system which has not fully been released.

We have a playtest version that has been constantly being built over and it's awesome the year and yeah, it's really cool. But for those that have never played and this is the first time I've played and I am not an expert in West Marches style.

Yeah, we're still learning but the idea is it's an open world sandbox. Players schedule themselves into session. So, you know, if you're doing it not in a play by post but in a regular, you know, you come and go. There is.

And that. And that's the big thing is this idea of come and go.

Evelyn: 00:44:13

Right.

Terry: 00:44:14

It is. My understanding is you have like a central hub.

Evelyn: 00:44:20

Yeah.

Terry: 00:44:21

Which is what we're doing.

Evelyn: 00:44:22

Yeah. We have the, the town set up and basically we've. We've split this between 4gms.

Terry: 00:44:28

Yep.

Evelyn: 00:44:29

And each of us is running one at least one of the places in the town to help kind of facilitate role play. Though the players so far have been very well facilitating their own replay, which is awesome. We always love that. But.

But yeah, so it is kind of like this is the central and it's where, when, when they, you know, that's where they'll be from and that's where they'll come back to.

Terry: 00:44:55

After tomorrow is the first item that's going to come up that will send our players out of town. And that's one of the things how a West marches is, is the group for that night gets sent off on a mission, right.

And they go and they take care of the mission, right. And then they come back with the spoils of war or exploration done or whatever it is, those sweet, sweet loots.

And you can, you know, each week you can have different players who are coming and going. So with ours we're allowing two, two characters per player.

Evelyn: 00:45:29

Right.

Terry: 00:45:30

So that way if one of their characters is off on an adventure, the.

Evelyn: 00:45:33

Other one could still be in town enjoying just general town role play stuff.

Terry: 00:45:37

Or you could get two on in different adventures. We're not big enough for that right now. Right now we're fairly small, but yeah, that's a good group so far. Yeah.

And my understanding for those that have done west marches is great with groups of six plus people, but irregular schedules so that different people can attend at different nights. And then this rolls into the next one which you hate.

Evelyn: 00:46:00

Don't hate.

Terry: 00:46:01

No, you literally said.

Evelyn: 00:46:02

I said this would be Nightmare fuel for me.

Terry: 00:46:05

Correct.

Evelyn: 00:46:05

Which is not hatred. It's just something that I do not think that I could handle.

Terry: 00:46:10

I mean most people when you hear Nightmare Fuel would think that you dislike.

Evelyn: 00:46:14

It, but I guess no, I give all like props to DMS who can do this because like I, I respect that ability. Like. Right.

And, and like any DM who is able to utilize this format for their own games, I like more power to you because like I couldn't do it myself. That's all I'm saying.

Terry: 00:46:36

So it just, it.

Evelyn: 00:46:37

The idea of this like completely like terrifies me.

Terry: 00:46:41

So this is the open. The Open Table Manifesto, originally posted. Well way way posted back.

original essay was posted in: 2011

Evelyn: 00:47:13

So they're done a lot at friendly local game stores because It's a great way for people to like, especially like if they have a specific day of the week or a couple days of the week where they run games in a store. Most of the time they are run as open tables where you can sign up to play at a table.

Terry: 00:47:35

Right. Well. And so this is what kind of got me hooked. I gotta say. The writing style of the author was pretty good. But this is a metaphor, right.

Somebody comes up to you and say, hey, you want to join a baseball team? And you ask what's that involve?

And they respond, well, we practice three hours every Wednesday evening and we'll have a game every Saturday afternoon for the next seven months. You're going to have to be really excited or really curious about baseball in order to take up up that offer.

Evelyn: 00:48:03

Yeah, it's a lot of commitment if you're not enthusiastic about baseball.

Terry: 00:48:07

And so the idea of open table role play is kind of moves towards the West Marches style of coming and going as you see fit.

Evelyn: 00:48:17

Right.

Terry: 00:48:18

And allowing people in the game easily.

Because what the idea is is that somebody coming in and not having to do a lot of work to learn it initially, maybe somebody that then will stay long term.

Evelyn: 00:48:33

Yeah.

Terry: 00:48:34

And so this as I said, and we'll leave a link for it@thealexandrian.net we'll put that in the show notes.

Evelyn: 00:48:44

Yes. So you can read it yourself.

Terry: 00:48:46

Exactly.

Evelyn: 00:48:47

It's a good article to read. It's three pages, I think altogether.

Terry: 00:48:51

And some of the stuff I really like about it as things like making sure that the character creation is super easy and super simple. And that's not always true with a lot of games. There's a lot of games that it's not super simple or super easy.

You know, something like D and D or Pathfinder is not necessarily the easiest to put together.

Evelyn: 00:49:15

Right. But he does mention that it is doable.

Terry: 00:49:18

It's doable.

Evelyn: 00:49:19

And he says specifically with older DD because that's the what he referenced specifically for D20 games.

Terry: 00:49:29

But something like Quest RPG or PBTA type games, Coriolis generally speaking was pretty easy. Dragon Bane starts to get more complicated and then again Call of Cthulhu becomes even more complicated.

But you want something that the player can very easily look at, a quick set of rules and create characters. And there's a lot of independent games out there that you can look at things like Karen and Nave and some other ones.

Evelyn: 00:49:54

Well, and it talks too about having pre generated characters as well as an option for these types of setups as well. And you Actually did kind of an open table thing at the coffee shop, actually.

Terry: 00:50:07

I guess I did.

Evelyn: 00:50:08

Yeah. That's basically what it was. Because you were doing an open table game before you really knew what it was called.

Yeah, well, I guess you had people drop in and out and we played different, you know, we play different RPGs, DTRPGs. So.

Terry: 00:50:23

All right, all right, well, so in the Alexandrian here, the focus tends to be more on megadungeons. That is not our style of play. And that is where Evelyn's Nightmare Fuel really kind of took off.

Evelyn: 00:50:37

Yeah, I like the max dungeon that I can do is like the mini dungeons that are very much in this like Sky King's Tomb vendor Path. I actually remember talking to Terry after we played Abomination Vaults. And though it is a very well constructed dungeon. Dungeon, it's not for me.

Terry: 00:51:02

No.

Evelyn: 00:51:02

Because it's for me it was a bit of schlog.

Terry: 00:51:09

Yeah.

Evelyn: 00:51:09

Because I just, I don't like fighting back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back.

Terry: 00:51:13

Right.

Evelyn: 00:51:13

But that's just that that's my personal thing. Lots of people love that I'm just not that person.

Terry: 00:51:19

There's a lot of loot people out there.

Evelyn: 00:51:21

Yes. I mean, I love loot. I just don't want to have to. To fight constantly.

Terry: 00:51:28

This loot is yours.

Evelyn: 00:51:29

I just like to space it out a little bit. It feels more rewarding when I'm not getting it every five minutes.

Terry: 00:51:35

So what the, what the article talks about is you need some things. You need quick character creation, which I talked about.

Easy access systems, open group formation, kind of a default goal, default actions, and regenerative and extensible content. I'm not going to go deep into this. That may be another podcast where we kind of break it down and see what still works today and what doesn't.

Because I mean, that was nine years ago with very different systems.

Evelyn: 00:52:03

Well, and like a lot of the technology that we have now that wasn't available then as well kind of changes things. I think one of the biggest things for me that like, and I talked to Terry about this after I read the article.

One of the biggest things for me that made this seem very, very like not is trying to keep track of every single player character, especially if you're talking about like repeated characters.

Because like, I want to make good roleplay encounters and if I'm trying to remember who's who, like it's, it's like that's why I like to contain my games to the same six you Know.

Terry: 00:52:38

Says the woman who knows just about every actor, actress or TTRPG writer or author or. And I'm over here going, yeah, that guy who did the thing was really cool and I really loved it. So, so maybe we'll.

If you're interested in hearing a full podcast on that, let us know. You can leave a comment on the website.

You could write a review on itunes or Spotify, but just kind of give us a heads up, let us know if it's something you're interested in us talking more about.

Evelyn: 00:53:07

Absolutely.

Terry: 00:53:07

Another part is short arcs and mini campaigns, which are loremaking chronicles, ideas like that. And we're hoping to continue that with some more short adventures.

What I'd like to do is actually need to talk to you, maybe doing another Call of Cthulhu as part of that.

Evelyn: 00:53:23

I love the Call of Cthulhu. The like, mini games that we did.

Terry: 00:53:26

And we're talking three to five session stories, clear beginnings and ends.

Evelyn: 00:53:30

Well, and they're great ways, especially if you're a new gm, they're a great way to learn the game.

Terry: 00:53:34

Yes.

Evelyn: 00:53:34

Like in, in easily digestible packages, essentially. Because a lot of times, like, if you're trying to go into a full campaign for your very first thing, it can be very, very overwhelming.

And so like, doing little one shots or like mini campaigns is like the best way to kind of. That's why I love the beginner's box.

Terry: 00:53:55

Oh yeah.

Evelyn: 00:53:56

Because it's a mini campaign that allows you to kind of figure out all the rules and, and a lot of, A lot of the systems that we've been picking up, they have beginner boxes. And it's so good.

And I, it just like, that's like, it's brilliant because it gets like, people who might be super enthusiastic, enthusiastic about the genre or the game, maybe they've read, like, maybe this is a game based off of a podcast that listened to or a series of books that they've read.

Because there's a Wheel of Time one, there's a Lord of the Rings one, and like letting them, you know, visit familiar themes, even if it's not necessarily a familiar story, but familiar themes or genres that they're interested in and also learn the rules in an easily digestible way is such a good way to get people started. And it's also a great way to see if your players would want to stick with something because it lets them.

It lets them just, you know, dabble around a little bit in it and then you can see, you know. Did you guys enjoy this? Is this Something you want to continue playing with or do we want to go on to the next thing?

Because this wasn't really what we were looking for.

Terry: 00:55:12

You know, I completely agree with all of that and works well with rotating players. You got players who have to be out for several weeks. You do a mini campaign instead. I think that that goes in a lot of different ways.

I guess the big question is, do you think it's possible to run a meaningful campaign in just three to five sessions?

Evelyn: 00:55:30

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think it entirely just depends on everybody's dedication to really the story. You know, how involved are your players with their character stories?

How involved are you as the GM with, you know, making these connections and creating, you know, like, I mean, even in, in many campaigns and larger campaigns you can have NPCs that like a couple sessions and, and like they have to leave in it.

And it's heart wrenching and it's, it's all about how you really get everybody and every at the table, how you get them all involved with the story and how much, you know, you're. It's. It's all about being willing to embrace whatever is happening in the story and.

Terry: 00:56:25

Not treating, you know, the biggest thing in, in a small mini arc like that is not treating them as throwaway characters.

Evelyn: 00:56:32

Yeah, right.

Terry: 00:56:33

You know, because they're just.

Evelyn: 00:56:34

Their stories are just as important as the ones that, you know, the stories that you're telling over multiple months, multiple.

Terry: 00:56:41

Years, and you never know when you're going to come back to them.

Evelyn: 00:56:43

Yeah, exactly.

Terry: 00:56:44

And then finally you've got a asynchronous play, which is what we're doing play by post. We're doing it on our Discord channels.

If you're interested in Legend of the Mist, if you're interested in playing play by post for the first time, definitely stop by the Discord. Discord, GG backslash, rfp. But I'm finding it really lovely.

Evelyn: 00:57:06

Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Terry: 00:57:07

I've never done it before. This is, this is my first play by post. I've created a character as well. The role play that's been happening has been pretty fantastic.

It allows people to kind of play at their own pace and they're playing at a much busier pace than I anticipated.

Evelyn: 00:57:22

They're excited.

Terry: 00:57:23

They are super excited. Now if we can keep that excitement going, that's fantastic. And so this is a different way of doing it.

Of course, it is a way for us to enjoy the game without the pressures of having to be somewhere at one time, at one place and playing the game.

Evelyn: 00:57:44

It also takes away that like you have to be on.

Terry: 00:57:51

Right.

Evelyn: 00:57:52

And like anybody who does acting or like DMing for like in person and stuff, or even in remote, there's this, there's this feeling that you have to kind of perform sometimes correct for, for your players because you want to give them a good game. And that means like really giving your all.

But in with the text role play, in this sort of asynchronous play, you also can kind of take moments to like, kind of sit and process what you're trying to communicate. There's not that need to immediately get the right words out to get the right ideas out. You can like take your time and perfect it the way.

The way that you. That you're trying to. To really communicate the idea without having to like, immediately like.

Terry: 00:58:38

Right.

Evelyn: 00:58:38

You know, come out with it.

Terry: 00:58:39

Yeah, no, I. That's Completely agree with that. And so like I said, we're running it right now and we'll.

We'll see how it kind of turns out through, you know, through the sessions. We opened it up on what, Saturday or Sunday? Saturday.

Evelyn: 00:58:55

I think it was Saturday. Yeah.

Terry: 00:58:56

And we're using something called Tupper Box for the characters.

Evelyn: 00:59:00

And I've made two NPCs.

Terry: 00:59:02

Yep. I'm super excited and it's. It's been a blast so far. So.

All right, so final area we're going to talk about is just final thoughts and advice in the long run. Right.

Evelyn: 00:59:15

Right.

Terry: 00:59:16

The goal is to tell stories together, not to be perfect.

Evelyn: 00:59:19

Right.

Terry: 00:59:20

And how we do that is going to be different with different groups.

Evelyn: 00:59:24

Right.

Terry: 00:59:25

Some are gonna. I mean, there are people out there who can keep that schedule with their entire group week in and week out. The same three to four hour slot.

They know that we talk about Troll Lord game, not Troll Lord games. Who plays. Been running it for 40 years.

Evelyn: 00:59:44

Oh, that's. That's Jay.

Terry: 00:59:46

Jay, thank you.

Evelyn: 00:59:46

Yeah. Lord Gazumba.

Terry: 00:59:47

Lord Gazoma. There we go. Lord Gazumba's group's been playing for 40 years. 45 years. 40 years.

Evelyn: 00:59:53

Let's see. It was 40 years. I think they might be up to. I think it might be almost up to 50 now.

Terry: 00:59:59

Jeezy. Crazy. They've been playing a long time. A long time.

Evelyn: 01:00:03

so I got to know jay. It was: 2017

Terry: 01:00:11

Okay, so. So there you go. And that's a. I mean again, week in and week out. That's amazing stuff.

Evelyn: 01:00:17

Yeah, obviously. And it's the same group of players too. It's that, like, the fact that, I mean, I. That's super impressive to me. Like.

Like, yeah, it's crazy, but it's awesome.

Terry: 01:00:26

And so that's really cool. And some can do that, others can't. Others have jobs or they have situations too. Well, no, no, but I'm saying they.

Evelyn: 01:00:36

Have situations that they can't have.

Terry: 01:00:38

That kind of that type of schedule certified week in and week out. And so, I mean, we were able to do it pretty easily with when we were in Alma, but now that we're here, it's. Obviously, we don't have a group right.

Evelyn: 01:00:51

Now in person, further out of town and all that stuff.

Terry: 01:00:56

And so maybe someday we'll get back to the in person. But, you know, in the end, like I said, it's about telling stories. And we know that's something that I think is huge for me.

We have to begin to normalize session gaps as you get older.

Evelyn: 01:01:10

Oh, yeah.

Terry: 01:01:11

You know, that is one of those things. But at the same point, we have to know that if we want a game to survive, that we've got to put in the time and effort to make it survive.

Evelyn: 01:01:21

That means everybody has to make the dedication to making sure that that keeps happening.

Terry: 01:01:28

Yeah. And of course, we've got to encourage flexibility, communication, shared sense of value.

This is, I think, flexibility as you get older, I think flexibility is probably the biggest thing until your kids are gone and then you can go back to every week and you ain't got to worry about it. It so, you know, or they're all.

Evelyn: 01:01:46

Out of the house.

Terry: 01:01:47

You wait till they're old enough to be part of the game and then.

Evelyn: 01:01:49

You start playing, and then you get them playing as well every week.

Terry: 01:01:53

But, you know, you've got a great.

Evelyn: 01:01:55

Way to teach math and literacy skills.

Terry: 01:01:57

Oh, my goodness. Yes. So. So maintaining that flexibility, that communication, there is always going to be a way to make sure that your game can continue on.

Evelyn: 01:02:05

Yeah.

Terry: 01:02:06

It just depends on the group on how easy or difficult that is to do. Do.

Evelyn: 01:02:11

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Terry: 01:02:13

So. So remember, you know, as the title says, roll for availability, why games fall apart and how to fix them. That part, I think is important.

So make sure that you think about that. Leave us a note, as always, on our social media, a review, anything to give us some feedback on how we're doing.

Let us know what you want to hear about, and we will keep rolling with this podcast.

Evelyn: 01:02:41

Absolutely.

Terry: 01:02:42

As always, I want to thank you for joining us for this week's podcast. We hope we inspired you to continue your TTRPG journey, however that may look.

Evelyn: 01:02:51

Make sure to stop by www.rollforperception.com and leave a comment on our podcast page. We're always looking to answer questions and discuss new TTRPGs, so make make sure.

Terry: 01:03:02

To have your D20 ready and your goblin voice arrested as you head out into the world of TTRPGs with roll for perception.